The Pac-12 Thread....

Its over until the current network deal is up for renewal or Texas and Oklahoma agree to come in with OSU and TT

Should have read without OSU and TT and I did not mention that Texas will have to give up the LHN also which isn't going to happen anytime soon.  Therefore I would think expansion is over otherwise you are looking at diluting your current network deal and schools recieving less money.

The network is new and will still be paying for itself so the "venders" are going to want to see a return before they autmatically pitch in more cash.  These deals have to pay off for the network partners and they do but it takes time to recoup start up cost.

WT1 is like an uber poster. Well done on all accounts. The Big 12 can save itself with a bit more expansion. Had they been able to hold on to Missouri and Texas A&M, they probably would of been a lot better off. I agree that the CCG really bolsters your conference on a variety of levels, and having those two teams still in the fold would of really made a difference to go along with the great additions of West Virginia and TCU. What might have been...

@trucker, I completely disagree with the B1G/Pac angle being used as leverage. It is akin to saying we are going to use our nuclear power as leverage against some other country with equal nuclear capabilities. We all know where that would lead.

@trucker, I completely disagree with the B1G/Pac angle being used as leverage. It is akin to saying we are going to use our nuclear power as leverage against some other country with equal nuclear capabilities. We all know where that would lead.

Kato is dead on that is how it would be perceived and the other conferences would be out for blood and revenge.  Not saying that would be the Christian way to handle it just sayin that is what would happen.

drkato, Hey, if I had a buck for every time I was wrong, I'd be posting from Hawaii.

I guess no one knows for sure, you two see the worst possible scenario, I see the potential for a major shake-up or outright dumping of the BCS.

Remember the BCS isn't mandatory to the formation of a playoff or major changes and may in fact be a barrier to that change.

It's clear to me that if the BCS wasn't involved in negotiations between the conferences/NCAA it would be easier to reach a deal not harder.

drkato, Hey, if I had a buck for every time I was wrong, I'd be posting from Hawaii.

I guess no one knows for sure, you two see the worst possible scenario, I see the potential for a major shake-up or outright dumping of the BCS.

Remember the BCS isn't mandatory to the formation of a playoff or major changes and may in fact be a barrier to that change.

It's clear to me that if the BCS wasn't involved in negotiations between the conferences/NCAA it would be easier to reach a deal not harder.

The BCS exist through an agreement of the conferences and Notre Dame in theory it exist at the pleasure of those entites as well it is not mandated.  The problem is all anyone could agree too were tweeks and no radical changes and should be noted that the Rose Bowl and its role has always been a point of contention in that process.

However factors have occured that have made everyone more agreeable:

1.  Schools getting left out notably:  Auburn, Okie State, Utah and Bosie State.
2.  SEC dominance over the past 6 years.
3.  Rematch between to SEC schools this past year - This simply should not have happened in a non-playoff situation.

Hoever I am very optimistic because this is the first time the B1G has publically annouced any type of support for a playoff.  I would imagine that Slive and the other commisioners will sit back allow the B1G to take the lead and hopefully Delany is seeing this as an opportunity to solidify some type of legacy for himself on the college football landscape.  If we allow him to drive the bus and get his ego boost then chances are vey good this happens.

At this point I think nobody cares about the little stuff as long as we can get the big picture taken care of and that is a playoff in some type of form.  Tweeks can come later lets just get something on paper and in place.  For the record the conferences that will benefit the most from this are the PAC, SEC and Big 12 and the ones that will probably suffer the most are the ACC, Big East and B1G.  Keep that in mind as we move forward because it is important and if the process breaks down you know where to look.

Wild-Turkey1, Being a member of the U.N. isn't mandatory either.LOL.

That doesn't equate to a good thing either. I don;t want to dive into the playoff argument again and have only ceded a playoff where the Bowl/s are are active participants, not just "venues" to a playoff.

For eg. School being left out, always happens, always will happen, playoff or not. a non-argument. SEC domination... so what? Get better play better. SEC rematch?, no problem with it. The Bowl games and their results confirmed the BCS selection in the first place.

In general, I'm not a playoff supporter.  

IMO, it's still leverage. albeit, to be used judiciously. I feel no great need for national football champions or organizations for that matter. results in more noise than it's worth.

Personally, I'm not a BCS fan either. As a west coast CFB supporter, and in general, a admirer of great programs wherever they are.

IMO, "no option is off the table" including departing from the BCS.

We probably do end up with a playoff, it had be pretty damn fair and preserve the traditions as well especially when we have our "leverage" to wave around.

But, what do I know, I'm just a fan.....

nwtrucker,

I find it very interesting that you seem hung up on leverage not that it is bad just interesting.  I think the majority of us hate the way the BCS works but the one thing I do know is it is better than the old system.  In the old system you very rarely had number one and two play and that is just not acceptable in my book because the whole thing becomes a beauty pageant and you have multiple schools claiming multiple titles for the same years.  In my mind it is the equivalent of giving everyone a trophy regardless of performance or letting kids walk at graduation and getting certificates of attendance when they didn't earn a dipolma or Alabama claiming 14 national titles that do not exist.

It is imparative that we find a system where everyone has an equal shot at the title and it is earned on the field and that is more important than any of the following:

1.  Rose Bowl
2.  Tradition
3.  Conference tie-ins
4.  Conference affliations
5.  Politics

A playoff is the only true answer no matter what the cost.

Wild-Turkey-1, "A playoff is the only true answer no matter what the cost".

That's my "hang-up". Right there. I see no more accuracy in any playoff format that exists in any of the other sports than what we have right now. Period.

I could argue all day that the playoffs leading up to the "title game" was better than the title game, almost without exception. We already have that in our regular season and the Pac-12-B1G agreement expands that.

We even have a system that allows the lesser teams have their day for the kids as well. The Bowls.

No matter what the cost. That's why my desire for leverage. To preserve what we have, the best of the major sports.

It is not imperative that everyone has an equal shot as the vast majority aren't of a quality to qualify for that "shot'. Impossible. Not even desirable,IMO.

I support the "plus one"/4 team playoff as an appeasement, not that it changes much of anything, Utilizing the four big bowls as a bi-conference championship, aka the Rose Bowl,(three bowl for conferences, one for non-AQ/runner-ups) does the least damage, IMO.

You'd have your first round and preserve the Bowls. You may not value the Bowls, I do.

You talk politics, I say politics is what's causing the compulsion for a playoff under the guise of fairness, again impossible with 120 teams,

In my view, your at any cost, is too high a price for too little gain.

We shall have to agree to disagree.

It is akin to saying we are going to use our nuclear power as leverage against some other country with equal nuclear capabilities. We all know where that would lead.

Yep we know, because it already happened... It was called the Cold War, and after about 40 years, it led to the bankruptcy and dissolution of the Soviet Union.

Or, is that not what you meant?

Wild-Turkey1, some good points. let me rebut.

Your first point of alienating the rest of college football is a critical point. I don't see that that's a given. I assume equal frustration with the BCS/NCAA that exists in the west also being the case nation wide. There hasn't been any pressure/alternative to the current state of affairs for any of the other conferences or schools to do anything about it.

Regarding labeling our champion "illegitimate", the same would then apply to a "national" championship game in the BCS.

Being forced out of bowls would only apply to BCS bowls, excluding the Rose Bowl of course. The BCS would be losing the "Granddaddy Bowl" themselves, a two-edged sword, to say the least.

The lesser bowls are invitational, I don;t see the bowls in San Diego or the Bay area, Nevada or anywhere where the PAC-B1G are dominant banning their bread and butter contestants. Financial suicide.

As far as the other sports are concerned, that would hurt and Frankly, I hadn't given that aspect much thought at all.

I see the option more as "leverage" as anything. Especially if other conferences look at the deepening relationship between the PAC and the B1G as a self-defense, survival move and copy it.

A two conference championship, as the Rose Bowl could viewed as, sets a precedence for the other conferences and end up being a "first round" playoff.

The NCAA and the BCS doesn't change much due to no real pressure, public opinion seems to have little or no effect on them. This sets up a potential alternative to the BCS where none existed before.

Who knows? Maybe, the idea actually has traction with the other conferences and rather than alienation, it generates support!

The NCAA and the BCS doesn't change much due to no real pressure, public opinion seems to have little or no effect on them. This sets up a potential alternative to the BCS where none existed before.

Delany is the one who has blocked the plus one system for years.  Hopefully the articles on the B1G and a 4 team playoff are correct and Delany is serious becasue if he is we can get this done everyone else has been on bd.  If it doesn't get done and Delany blocks it and then the PAC and B1G pull out of the BCS it is going to get extrememly ugly.